Comments on: Fun with XHTML Selector Triggers http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/ Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:44:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: NOVELL: Cool Blogs » Blog Archive » Catalyst sparks interoperable Internet identity systems http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-248 NOVELL: Cool Blogs » Blog Archive » Catalyst sparks interoperable Internet identity systems Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:17:04 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-248 [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...] [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...]

]]> By: Kim Cameron’s Identity Weblog » DigitalMe for Mac passed the Interoperathon http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-249 Kim Cameron’s Identity Weblog » DigitalMe for Mac passed the Interoperathon Mon, 09 Jul 2007 01:29:14 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-249 [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...] [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...]

]]> By: dale olds’ virtualsoul » Catalyst sparks interoperable Internet identity systems http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-250 dale olds’ virtualsoul » Catalyst sparks interoperable Internet identity systems Sat, 07 Jul 2007 03:11:18 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-250 [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...] [...] it work. While there were many bugs and hiccups along the way, diverse projects pulled together and did the real work of making it work. The vast majority of projects represented were able to successfully interoperate [...]

]]> By: Pamela http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-245 Pamela Thu, 21 Jun 2007 04:48:26 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-245 Michael, just to publicy commit, I will have the stuff you document fixed for next week -- I hope you'll be able to check my work and verify that openSAML tokens are now working for you. Cheers, Pam Michael, just to publicy commit, I will have the stuff you document fixed for next week — I hope you’ll be able to check my work and verify that openSAML tokens are now working for you.

Cheers,

Pam

]]> By: Michael Ramirez http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-244 Michael Ramirez Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:44:58 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-244 Good luck with those Cardspace selector issues. Have you looked at the MSDN forums lately? There are quite a few other quirks which are quite frustrating, especially from the STS' point of view. (e.g. http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1285482&SiteID=1) Speaking of bugs, have you noticed the SAML canonicalization issues that I mentioned in my blog? (http://rammic.blogspot.com/2007/06/interop-opensaml-and-php-infocard.html) That would be fixable within Pamelaware, I would assume. Interoperability with other valid SAML tokens are going to be tough otherwise. Good luck with those Cardspace selector issues. Have you looked at the MSDN forums lately? There are quite a few other quirks which are quite frustrating, especially from the STS’ point of view. (e.g. http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1285482&SiteID=1)

Speaking of bugs, have you noticed the SAML canonicalization issues that I mentioned in my blog? (http://rammic.blogspot.com/2007/06/interop-opensaml-and-php-infocard.html) That would be fixable within Pamelaware, I would assume. Interoperability with other valid SAML tokens are going to be tough otherwise.

]]> By: Pamela http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-246 Pamela Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:04:48 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-246 Mark - you are of course right, if you put my page through the W3C validator, it will not succeed in any case, because the binary behaviour object is an unknown object. Still, I think there is more than just the letter of the law here. Addition of a rogue object to an XHTML-compliant page may mean that the object is exempt from compliance, but it isn't exempt from usability. A lot of web designers will hopefully be using this object in the future. And when they do, I can guarantee that many of them will flatten out the case in the attributes as they paste the object into the page, because they are following the understood and agreed-upon convention for XHTML 1.0 strict. They want their pages to be consistent in style, and they want things within their pages to make sense. The exact reason that this rule exists is to bypass parsing ugliness due to the case sensitivity of XML vs. HTML. As a result, by trying to be consistent,these users will break the object in a way that is stupid and a waste of everybody's time. Senseless unconventionality. To me, that's what this is. Mark – you are of course right, if you put my page through the W3C validator, it will not succeed in any case, because the binary behaviour object is an unknown object.

Still, I think there is more than just the letter of the law here. Addition of a rogue object to an XHTML-compliant page may mean that the object is exempt from compliance, but it isn’t exempt from usability. A lot of web designers will hopefully be using this object in the future. And when they do, I can guarantee that many of them will flatten out the case in the attributes as they paste the object into the page, because they are following the understood and agreed-upon convention for XHTML 1.0 strict. They want their pages to be consistent in style, and they want things within their pages to make sense. The exact reason that this rule exists is to bypass parsing ugliness due to the case sensitivity of XML vs. HTML. As a result, by trying to be consistent,these users will break the object in a way that is stupid and a waste of everybody’s time.

Senseless unconventionality. To me, that’s what this is.

]]> By: Mark Wahl http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/comment-page-1/#comment-247 Mark Wahl Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:33:50 +0000 http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/fun-with-xhtml-selector-triggers/#comment-247 Hi, in wierdness #1 you write "the object that works with CardSpace doesn’t perfectly comply with the XHTML 1.0 standard" I'm not sure I'd agree with this, as I don't remember seeing any statement in XHTML that discusses compliance requirements on other namespaces for them to be combined with XHTML. Your post states "Section 4.2 of the W3C XHTML 1.0 specification states that “Element and attribute names must be in lower case”" I interpret section 4.2 to only apply to representing hypertext markup language definitions made in the XHTML namespace itself: section 4 is comparing XHTML and HTML and 4.2 says "XHTML documents must use lower case for all HTML element and attribute names". "claimType" not being in HTML, I'm not sure how this would be more noncompliant than saying "claimtype". According to section 3.1.2 of XHTML, using ANY other elements in a document makes the document "not strictly conforming", regardless of whether the non-HTML elements or their attributes have upper case / lower case / mixed case. Hi, in wierdness #1 you write

“the object that works with CardSpace doesn’t perfectly comply with the XHTML 1.0 standard”

I’m not sure I’d agree with this, as I don’t remember seeing any statement in XHTML that discusses compliance requirements on other namespaces for them to be combined with XHTML.

Your post states

“Section 4.2 of the W3C XHTML 1.0 specification states that “Element and attribute names must be in lower case””

I interpret section 4.2 to only apply to representing hypertext markup language definitions made in the XHTML namespace itself: section 4 is comparing XHTML and HTML and 4.2 says “XHTML documents must use lower case for all HTML element and attribute names”. “claimType” not being in HTML, I’m not sure how this would be more noncompliant than saying “claimtype”. According to section 3.1.2 of XHTML, using ANY other elements in a document makes the document “not strictly conforming”, regardless of whether the non-HTML elements or their attributes have upper case / lower case / mixed case.

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