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	<title>Comments on: Seeing- if not red, at least strong magenta</title>
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	<link>http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2008/10/21/seeing-if-not-red-at-least-strong-magenta/</link>
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		<title>By: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2008/10/21/seeing-if-not-red-at-least-strong-magenta/comment-page-1/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/?p=601#comment-461</guid>
		<description>If a conference organizer puts somebody on stage that they *know* will fail, just to have equity, they are an idiot.  I do not consider that kind of stupidity to be my problem.

If, however, it comes down to the unknowns, on what basis do you give people a chance?  Are you going to deny the chance for the minority, to be sure that you avoid positive discrimination?  I would hope not.

I suppose that if it there are concerns, the fairest thing would be to give a scrubbed version of the proposals to a third-party, and have them choose what they think has the best merit, without the minority issue being even a possible factor.

No matter what, I would hope that you would not retreat to the safe haven of &quot;honest male chauvinism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a conference organizer puts somebody on stage that they *know* will fail, just to have equity, they are an idiot.  I do not consider that kind of stupidity to be my problem.</p>
<p>If, however, it comes down to the unknowns, on what basis do you give people a chance?  Are you going to deny the chance for the minority, to be sure that you avoid positive discrimination?  I would hope not.</p>
<p>I suppose that if it there are concerns, the fairest thing would be to give a scrubbed version of the proposals to a third-party, and have them choose what they think has the best merit, without the minority issue being even a possible factor.</p>
<p>No matter what, I would hope that you would not retreat to the safe haven of &#8220;honest male chauvinism&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: barryd</title>
		<link>http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2008/10/21/seeing-if-not-red-at-least-strong-magenta/comment-page-1/#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>barryd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/?p=601#comment-464</guid>
		<description>Well surely it depends on the conference. If the industry is 99.9% male then putting a female on the speaker list may well be tokenism.

From the other side I have a big problem with positive discrimination, having grown up in Northern Ireland where it was forced on industry to a certain degree.

Part of the problem of positive discrimination is this; if you&#039;re chosen to speak are you being picked because of your ability or because you have bits boys don&#039;t have, or your skin colour is different, or you&#039;re a disabled lesbian wheelchair bound dwarf?

There&#039;s a move afoot to make positive discrimination legal in the UK when there are no other differences between candidates other than sex or race. That may well cheapen the employment of the people who are supposed to benefit.

I ran a competition in September to encourage more women to submit talks to a UK community conference; we had 3 entries, only one of which was from a new speaker. In the same way that there&#039;s a massive complaint about the lack of women in the UK parliment it (hopefully) raises the thought that it&#039;s not sexism but simply because women don&#039;t actually want to do the role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well surely it depends on the conference. If the industry is 99.9% male then putting a female on the speaker list may well be tokenism.</p>
<p>From the other side I have a big problem with positive discrimination, having grown up in Northern Ireland where it was forced on industry to a certain degree.</p>
<p>Part of the problem of positive discrimination is this; if you&#8217;re chosen to speak are you being picked because of your ability or because you have bits boys don&#8217;t have, or your skin colour is different, or you&#8217;re a disabled lesbian wheelchair bound dwarf?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a move afoot to make positive discrimination legal in the UK when there are no other differences between candidates other than sex or race. That may well cheapen the employment of the people who are supposed to benefit.</p>
<p>I ran a competition in September to encourage more women to submit talks to a UK community conference; we had 3 entries, only one of which was from a new speaker. In the same way that there&#8217;s a massive complaint about the lack of women in the UK parliment it (hopefully) raises the thought that it&#8217;s not sexism but simply because women don&#8217;t actually want to do the role.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2008/10/21/seeing-if-not-red-at-least-strong-magenta/comment-page-1/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/?p=601#comment-463</guid>
		<description>I dunno, this guy has a big fancy reputation as a mediator, and has even written a book entitled &quot;Leadership in Conflict&quot;.   His conference experiences were not in the tech area, yet his other observations apply to tech.  Maybe he just needs to fire his editor for not catching and neutralizing his natural state of honest male chauvinism :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, this guy has a big fancy reputation as a mediator, and has even written a book entitled &#8220;Leadership in Conflict&#8221;.   His conference experiences were not in the tech area, yet his other observations apply to tech.  Maybe he just needs to fire his editor for not catching and neutralizing his natural state of honest male chauvinism :)</p>
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		<title>By: Gunnar</title>
		<link>http://eternallyoptimistic.com/2008/10/21/seeing-if-not-red-at-least-strong-magenta/comment-page-1/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eternaloptimist.wordpress.com/?p=601#comment-462</guid>
		<description>Big missed opportunity by the conference. They should have used WS-Trust STS to do a token exchange to exchange for a token person who knows something interesting or useful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big missed opportunity by the conference. They should have used WS-Trust STS to do a token exchange to exchange for a token person who knows something interesting or useful</p>
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